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	<title>The Scores Report - The National Sports Blog &#187; Wayne Winston</title>
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		<title>Bill Simmons vs. Wayne Winston</title>
		<link>http://www.scoresreport.com/2009/11/23/bill-simmons-vs-wayne-winston/</link>
		<comments>http://www.scoresreport.com/2009/11/23/bill-simmons-vs-wayne-winston/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Paulsen</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[External NBA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[External NFL]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[External Sports]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NBA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NFL]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[2009-10 NBA season]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Belichick 4th-and-2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Belichick fourth down call]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Belichick fourth down decision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bill Simmons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wayne Winston]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scoresreport.com/?p=29714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In last week&#8217;s column about Bill Belichick&#8217;s ill-fated decision to go for it on 4th-and-2 on his own 28, Bill Simmons took a shot at Mavs stat-man Wayne Winston. Which brings us back to statistics. Yes, they enhance the discussion. Many times. (FYI: The &#8220;to punt or not to punt&#8221; numbers, in general, are interesting. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/091120" target="_blank">In last week&#8217;s column</a> about Bill Belichick&#8217;s ill-fated decision to go for it on 4th-and-2 on his own 28, Bill Simmons took a shot at Mavs stat-man Wayne Winston.</p>
<blockquote><p>Which brings us back to statistics. Yes, they enhance the discussion. Many times. (FYI: The &#8220;to punt or not to punt&#8221; numbers, in general, are interesting. You can make a strong case that good offenses should almost always go for it on fourth-and-short beyond their own 40.) There are also times when statistics make that same discussion dumber. For instance, a former Mavericks statistician named Wayne Winston recently debuted a complicated plus-minus statistic for basketball that included the following two revelations:</p>
<p>1. Kevin Durant made the 2008-09 Zombie Sonics worse.<br />
2. Tim Thomas is underrated.</p>
<p>(Deep breath.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to get into my thoughts about plus-minus data and all the inherent problems with it. Some other time. We&#8217;ll ignore the Durant lunacy for now. But to argue, insinuate or even blink that Tim Thomas is underrated &#8212; by any metric &#8212; cannot be allowed. </p></blockquote>
<p>He goes on to discuss Thomas&#8217;s lack of heart, and how he hurts his team spiritually and emotionally.</p>
<p>Winston got wind of Simmons&#8217; shout out and responded <a href="http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=232" target="_blank">on his blog</a>.</p>
<p><span id="more-29714"></span></p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice to get a look inside the head of one of the numbers guys for an NBA team. Aside for the jarring changes in font type, size and style, it&#8217;s an interesting read.</p>
<p>First, Winston responds to Simmons&#8217;s assertion that this particular 4th-and-2 was more like a two-point conversion than your typical 4th-and 2.</p>
<blockquote><p>You point out that less than 40% of two point conversions attempted with passes were successful, so you clearly think that MAKE &lt; .50. I would argue, however, that the short field makes it easy to defend a pass on a two point conversion, so this is not a relevant data point. </p></blockquote>
<p>Didn&#8217;t the Colts know that they were looking at a short pass? There was no one in the backfield so a run was out of the question. There was a small (though unrealistic) chance of a long pass, so while the long field did exist, for the purposes of this play, it was essentially a two-point attempt. </p>
<p>Winston also goes on to defend his opinion that Kevin Durant didn&#8217;t help the Thunder all that much in his first two seasons and that Tim Thomas is an above average player. He leans a lot on numbers and not on the qualitative aspects of the game, but that&#8217;s what numbers guys are supposed to do. It&#8217;s the GM&#8217;s job to use common sense and throw the numbers out when necessary.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a numbers guy myself, but I also played college basketball (at the Division III level), so I am well aware that there are a lot of positive (and negative) things that a player can do that don&#8217;t show up in the box score. Tim Thomas only plays hard in his contract year. Otherwise, he&#8217;s soft, lazy and apathetic. </p>
<p>Kevin Durant is a great basketball player. Whether or not the +/- numbers during his first two seasons bear that out doesn&#8217;t matter. He passes the &#8220;eye test&#8221; with flying colors. And it looks like Winston is a lot higher on KD in his third season.</p>
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