Vegas must have decided the end of Steelers/Chargers game
I’m not one for conspiracy theories but what transpired at the end of the Chargers-Steelers game had to be a total fix by none other than Vegas itself.
With only seconds remaining in the game and Pittsburgh up 11-10, San Diego took over deep in their own territory hoping for one last miracle. Philip Rivers completed a pass to LaDainian Tomlinson, who then pitched it back to a teammate, who then tried to pitch it back to another teammate but the ball was fumbled and eventually scooped up by the Steelers’ Troy Polamalu. He then returned the fumble into the end zone for an apparent Pittsburgh touchdown.
But after a review, officials determined that it was an illegal forward pass and the touchdown was wiped out. Granted the outcome of the game didn’t change – the Steelers would have won regardless – but the play did affect the point spread. Pittsburgh was a 5-point favorite and had Polamalu’s touchdown held up, the Steelers would have covered. But with the play overturned, the Chargers covered.
I’m only half serious when I suggest Vegas had anything to do with the outcome of the game, but it was interesting how that play affected so much (at least in the gambling world). Analysts said after the game that it was clearly an illegal pass by LT, so I’ll take their word for it, although it looked totally legal to me. Not only that, but how could officials signal that it was a touchdown only to take the points off the board minutes later?
It’s also crazy that this was the first game in the history of the NFL that end in a 11-10 final, but I doubt people who wagered on the Steelers care about that useless fact.
Here’s the YouTube video of the play:
More topics related to this subject:
- End of Chargers-Steelers game a black eye for NFL
- Troy Polamalu’s amazing interception
- Proof that NFL.com is not an objective news source
- Referee admits he blew the final play in the Steelers-Chargers game
Posted in: Fantasy Football, NFL
Tags: Ben Roethlisberger, LaDainian Tomlinson, NFL Week 11, NFL Week 11 game recap, Philip Rivers, Pittsburgh Steelers, San Diego Chargers, Steelers beat Chargers, Steelers-Chargers end of the game play, Stelers-Chargers end of game, Troy Polamalu, Vegas fixes Steelers-Chargers game
We need to fight this it’s BS officials need to be fired over this they said with 0:00 TD and game over then change mind when players leaving field. It was not a illegal forward pass. Just shows can not trust NFL.
Didn’t look like a forward pass to me. And we did have Pittsburgh – 5, and I’ve never seen anything like it , my heart is still on the ground. Bull.
The ending of the game was truly the biggest Vegas fix I’ve ever seen in football. A completely legal backwards pass was ruled illegal and the ref originally called TD, and then changed the score after the players we’re leaving the field. Its obvious to me that the game spread was the only thing that mattered. It should be investigated….but the NFL will likey make it disappear as if it never happened. Roger Goodell’s usual solution. Vegas always wins.
I have never seen so much confusion at the end of an NFL game. I thought I heard the head referee say there was an illegal forwad pass. Then he signalled touchdown. Then the officials left the field of play. There was so much uncertainty from officials who get paid very well to get things right. What was the big hurry? Review the last play. Make the call. Call it correctly. Officials are there to dismiss confusion not lend to it.
We need to study the tape. If it was a forward lateral, then all good. There were, I think, 3 laterals, and the first one may actually have been the lateral. But the way it ended was truly heartbreaking for gamblers, silly management by the refs, and a little fishy and just weird.
Some may say all that matters is that the Steelers won, or that this is the first 11-10 game in history, but hey . . .
this shit effected some of our pockets . . .
Absolute BS. It cost some dearly. Talk about a shower of emotions. Absolute BS. Score should have been 17-10. Cover.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought this was complete bull. To say that it was a touchdown, but then waive it off is mind-boggling. I was shocked and I thought it was clearly a legal play.
The officials first ruling was illegal forward pass (which never occured) penalty declined touchdown is good. How can they reverse that call and take the points off the board?
This game needs to be investigated. Absolutely crooked officiating. The NFL will effectively bury this issue. ESPN will avoid even talking about it.
There were two laterals: 1) LT’s lateral to Chambers and 2) Chambers lateral to no one. Chambers’ lateral was obviously backwards, so LT’s is the one in question. I never got a good angle for it.
Bummer for me, because I had the PIT DT starting in one of my fantasy leagues. Obviously, it was a bigger bummer for all the bettors out there, though they really didn’t “deserve” the win with the way the game went.
They deserved to win if it wasn’t an illegal backward pass. Back door covers happen all the time in gambling and this would have been no different if the touchdown would have counted.
I never once questioned NFL legitimacy… Today I do. I need some extreme clarification on the rule, which is impossible to find… Steelers clearly declined the penalty! Costas did try and bring the discussion up tonight but nobody wanted to touch it… I still think score might change.. cross my fingers…
None of those laterals was even close to being forward (illegal). This was an obvious fix for the pointspread. Don’t plan on seeing the replay anymore (unless the NFL doctors the video first). This makes the guy from the NBA look like a choir boy. One has to wonder how many other plays in NFL games are to achieve the score Vegas wants. This one was just so blatantly obvious because it was at the end of a game. When this stuff happens earlier in the game, it may not be as obvious until the final score is in.
There has ALWAYS been shady officiating in the NFL. Phantom holding calls, suspect pass interference calls hell they’ll even pick a flag up and reverse a penalty. Guess you just have to hope your on the right side of the fix.
And don’t forget an extremely questionable holding call on a run play that would have resulted in a Steelers TD 30 seconds earlier. The fix is clearly in on this one!
After the game, referee Scott Green said the officials realized afterward the touchdown should have counted, though it wouldn’t have affected the result. Just Pulled that off San Jose Newspaper… I am still confused how it wasn’t considering the FREAKING REFS signaled TD!.. This is really starting to drive me nuts.
watched the game from the dtart and the pass int call in the first period was probably the worst call of the season…that put together with 13 pens against pitt to 2 (one of which was the phantom forward pass at the end)to san diego tells you who the officials were focused on.
total disgrace to the sport!..not only that but these officials seem to be doing it more than often,the new england game last thursday they called a phantom hold with 3mins to go when they were going in for a td…they go on to lose the game…and who cant forget the overtime (none) spin of a coin a month or so ago(cant remember who it was)but the ref goes to spin the coin but doesn’t spin it!..coin goes up flat and lands the same way it went up!!..too many unbelievable mishaps and phantom plays to be legit im afraid!
post a link for that nfl=shady please
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_11000588
CRAZY!!!!
you guys are out of your minds if you think that “vegas” had anything to do with that. if you’re such big timers, you would know that a) there is no such singularity known as ‘vegas’, and b) sport books LOSE just as much as they win – the line was actually lowered TO 5 from 5.5 as more people bet the chargers to cover. think about shit before you idiots start your conspiracy theories running wild.
Even if the NFL does the right thing and upholds the correct score of 17-10, the betting results are still a Charger cover. By sports book rules, the score within x minutes after the final gun count as the bet. In Vegas, I’m sure the bettors holding San Diego tickets cashed them as quick as they could. So even if the Commish changes the score, it’s just for show. The bets have been paid and Vegas and the NFL got what they want.
yeah crackhead=dikhead
they lose as much as they win…they just do it for fucking fun!!..maybe you should think before typing arsehole!
The refs even acknowledged they F’d up !!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=281116023
Not a conspiracy, but maybe, just maybe someone who could control the outcome of the game bet on SD to cover or they know people who bet big on SD. Steelers score TD. Everyone leaves field of play. Steelers win by 4 and not 5 for PAT. Remember, the Steelers were lined up for PAT when game ended. The Steelers however, never did kick the PAT even though a touchdown sgnal was given. That looked a little weird. I have never ever witnessed that scenario in an NFL game.
well you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about so i’m not going to even try and explain it to you again, filthman. but nice comeback on the dikhead reference – makes your argument seem really pro. keep up the good work here, boys… anyone who bets on the books yet has no idea how it works keeps me entertained.
Just watched the video highlights on NFL.com…wow. Just, wow. I don’t know if I’m ready to cry conspiracy, but it’s definitely a curious call.
Cost me 3 dimes !!!!!
“After the game, referee Scott Green said the officials realized afterward the touchdown should have counted, though it wouldn’t have affected the result.”
so why no booth review?
why was there such a rush to get off?
why was the umpire confused and blabbering like his life depended on it? ..
when of course it wouldn’t have affected the result?
strange thing is if it wouldn’t have affected the result why were they looking to change it anyhow? especially when the ruling on the field was a td
i am basing my opinions from watching the entire game…the whole game was a total bias to the chargers not just the stupid non play at the end
gamblers=crackheads You have no idea “sport books LOSE just as much as they win” Sure what ever you say. Just go to bed!
What a crock of crappola. Clearly, it was a legit lateral from Tomlinson to Chambers. I don’t believe in conspiracy, but I do believe in the replay system. Just cant understand why they didnt let the TD stand if the refs said it should have been a TD.
This game should be declared a push on a technicality and vegas should return every bettor’s money in good faith.
I say we all call the league office tomorrow for an explanation … It’s out $$$ they are f***in with for god’s sake !!!!!
212.450.2000
i have already called the nfl to investigate this
bullshit call obviously the fix was in just like in the nba. this shit has to be stopped
No second look from upstairs … then they admit afterward they got the call wrong ! These f***in officials had something going on ! Lousy call on the previous play as well … Holding my a** ! I’m gonna raise hell tomorrow
Green, in a postgame interview with a pool reporter, said that call was errant _ even though his explanation for the confusion was almost as confusing as the play itself.
“We should have let the play go through in the end, yes,” Green said. “It was misinterpreted that instead of killing the play, we should have let the play go through.”
Green said the confusion occurred because there was a misunderstanding about whether Rivers’ pass or Tomlinson’s lateral was in question.
“The first pass was the one that was illegal, but it only kills the play if it hits the ground,” Green said. “That was incorrect to have killed it at that point. The ruling should have let the play go on. That’s just the way that it played out. We believe the second pass (by Tomlinson) was legal.”
Green was asked why, since the first pass by Rivers did not hit the ground, the officials decided after huddling that the play should have ended there.
“We didn’t kill it on the field,” Green said. “After (the) discussion we decided … there was some confusion over which pass we were talking about and it was decided that it was the second pass that was illegal that did hit the ground and therefore we killed the play there.”
However, the officials realized afterward they erred.
“I know,” Green said. “The rule was misinterpreted.”
Asked about the officiating _ the Steelers drew 115 yards in penalties to the Chargers’ 5 _ Pittsburgh coach Mike Tomlin declined to comment.
“No, I have never seen a game ended with 13-to-1 in penalties, but I am not answering questions about the officiating,” Tomlin said.
The call affected betting on the game since the Steelers were 5-point favorites and would have covered if the touchdown counted.
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!
These officials should be punished !!! There is legalized gambling in this country and when the f*** up they are messing with peoples dollars ! I mean mistakes happen, but this was just horrible … I’m pissed ! I’ve had bad beats on questionable calls, but this was simple, the play should have standed in a touchdown ! I hope Scott Green and his entire crew get the s*** kicked out of them … a**h***s !!!
Hey, look on the bright side, guys: Bang! Cartoons is going to have a field day with this.
refs fixed it.2 holdings on ward.holding on td & bs pass int………
Anthony – You sound like you lost some dough on this one…Regardless of “backdoor covers,” whoever was on Pittsburgh -5 was on the wrong side of that bet.
Let me ask you this, if you had been on the Chargers +5 and the TD play stood, would you not believe that you “deserved” to win that bet?
Only one side can “deserve” the win, and in this case it was whoever bet on the Chargers. This is not to say that guys on Pittsburgh shouldn’t have won the bet. These are two different things I’m talking about.
Those smart asses that said the spread went to 5 1/2 are totally wrong. The spread opened up at 4 1/2 and went to 5 and whole of U.S.A. & Canada where betting on the Steelers.
I agree that the fix was in and I want something done about it.
Bullshit!!!!!
JP – I didn’t bet this game. Had I bet on the Chargers and they lost on that TD, I would have cursed my luck, been pissed off the rest of the night and chalked it up to the nature of the beast.
But the Chargers didn’t deserve to win the bet – the Steelers did. Had Rivers thrown the ball deep and it fell incomplete, than the Chargers deserved to win the bet. But because the refs didn’t get the final play of the game right, those who bet on the Steelers didn’t win even though they deserved it.
I’m assuming you’re saying that the Steelers didn’t deserve to win because had the touchdown stood, it would have been a fluke? Flukes happen all the time in gambling, but rarely does it come down to a situation like this.
That’s why I mention backdoor covers – they happen all the time and if you gamble enough, you’re going to win as many backdoor covers as you lose. In this situation, the Steelers would have covered if the refs got the call right and thus, they deserved to win the bet.
I am a Steeler fan… And I DO NOT bet on football… or any other sport. My take is this…
Troy Polamalu made a fantastic read on the play, and made a great effort to give his team a few extra points at the end of a game they had already won… I was excited, the Steeler fans were excited, and The team was excited… lets go to the locker room on a high note guys!!
Then.. We all saw what happened so im not going through all that again. But there is a point to all this..
The “penalty” that was called was on Tomlinson for an illegal frward pass (it may or may not have been its pretty close)..
During a “regular” play… the ball is only blown dead if said pass hits the ground, otherwise play continues and the Steelers would have had the choice of accepting or declining that penalty, based on the outcome of the play.
The fact to consider is that Tomlinsons lateral (or forward pass) NEVER hit the ground. It was caught by Chambers, who then made a perfectly legal lateral, which was broken up by Troy… (at which point it becomes a fumble), then scooped up and carried in for a score.
The Steelers would have declined the penalty and the score should have stood. Plain and simple.
So we have determined that whether the pass was illegal OR NOT.. the play should stand and the score should count. Dispute this if you dare… but I assure you cannot tell me im wrong.
The issue is WHY on gods green earth was the play reviewed when there was no time on the clock, the steelers had won the game (either way), And the touchdown was signaled… correctly?
Did anyone see the referees’ THIRD ruling on the play when he explaind the play was dead and took away the touchdow? He ran out on the field, shook his head in disbelief and confusion, delivered the damaging news… and ran like hell off the field.
Find someone who tivo’ed the game… you will see im right. Somebody didn’t want that touchdown to count… and instant replay was used to take away otherwise “meaningless” points.
I want to know why.
The right side of this bet was the Chargers +5. The Steeler TD, had it counted, would have been the fluke of all flukes and everyone that had bet on the Chargers would have cursed their luck and thought they had deserved the win. They could run that lateral play 100 times and 99 times it would have ended with a tackle or a fumble recovery NOT advanced for a TD.
Under that scenario, Steeler bettors would have gave thanks for their good fortune, but they would have realized that they were on the wrong side of this bet. I don’t think that too many would or could say with a straight face, that they “deserved” to win that bet.
I guess we’re looking at it two different ways, but from my POV, even if the TD had counted, the Steelers didn’t “deserve” to cover. Not after the way the other 59:55 minutes went.
NOBODY “deserves” to win a bet. Thats why its called a “bet”… that why its called “gambling”…
Its a game of chance…. Does A poker player who loses on a river card “deserve” to win the pot?
Im sorry John Paulsen… but you are an idiot.
Listen I had SD and i feel fine with taking the money cause i also had SD vs denver when they blew 3 calls and apologized the next day and I never received a check in the mail from that screw up all evens out. Just glad this 1 did cause I had alot more on it lol!!!!!!
We all saw what happened. Some of us are pissed and some of us play stupid. Even though the play was “pointless”, It WAS a legal forward pass, the ball never hit the ground, then L.T (Obvious to anyone who was watching)legally threw the ball backwards, which Fumled legally back and was picked up by the defense and run in for a TD, which the refs called a TD. ALL OBVIOUS TO ANYONE!!!If NBA refs can get caught fixing games WHY NOT THE NFL?? People still believe that people aren’t bad. If the government can be corrupt why do you insist that sports won’t be? This was good. Maybe now some heads will roll.
It happened in the first quarter, so maybe most of you forgot about it, but that passing interference call that led to the only Chargers touchdown was a terrible one. First of all, the ball was uncatchable. When the ref announced the penalty, he called it on #25 but it would really have been Ike Taylor (#24), and lastly there was no passing interference. Ike Taylor had the position. Even the announcers were saying it. Then there’s that reviewed call where Malcolm Floyd caught the pass out of bounds. That one didn’t matter because Harrison got the pick right after. But the refs were definitely making all the calls in San Diego’s favor.
I remember the pass interference call and thought it looked like a phantom call as well.
I’m not sure where this talk about who “deserved” to win the bet started, but the play at the end of the game was legit (or sure as hell looks legit on replay), so if there are any bettors who “deserved” to win yesterday, it was those who were on the Steelers because the final score should have been 17-10. It doesn’t matter that it was a fluke play — it was a legitimate and legal play that resulted in a TD, and the final score should have reflected that.
Now they’re sayin that they made a mistake, but they won’t change the final score..thanks, that really helps me feel better about losing $$$ on a fix…bullshit
I don’t bet, and I don’t particularly care what happened, except that the Steelers won (I’m a Steelers fan.)
Tim Button points out some useful things, like why they reviewed a call that had no effect on the outcome.
Most have missed the 23-1 disparity in penalty yardage (115 Steelers – 5 Chargers). This has to be near the record.
Add that to the incredible shenanigans at the end, and it looks bad. Very bad.
Well, my son and I were watching this game, and we bet on Pittsburgh to cover, in our NFL pool. My son, 15, said before the play, “we can still win if SD fumbles the kickoff, and Pitt runs it in for a TD”. I told him to be quiet, because I was still reeling over the the TD that was called back due to the Holding penalty (no qualms about that, it was definitely a hold). Anyway, when Pitt goes in for the fumble recovery TD, my son/I were celebrating as if our team had just won the Super Bowl…..I couldn’t believe that my son had called the play……then, when the refs took it back, after the initial review (and without reviwing it again), we couldn’t believe our eyes. We didn’t discover this, until after the game, because FOX (or what it CBS ?) displayed the final score on TV as 17-10. This is real mud in the eyes of the NFL. Refs make bad calls, but to make a change in call, after a review, only to make the change, without reviewing again, smells real, real bad. If I were the NFL, I uphold the TD call, and give Pitt the extra 6 points (and pray that they don’t lose the 7th tie breaker by one point), and Las Vegas and all the pools around the world, should call the game a “push”, to minimize any friction. Anything less than the above, is a travesty for the sport, and will look like a dodgy NBA move.
Tim Button has spoken: I am an idiot.
I’m crushed.
I don’t know why this concept seems to be so difficult to grasp. Tim, in Texas Hold ‘Em, you can play all of your cards right, put your opponent all in, and leave him with a single out, and still lose the pot. Most reasonable poker players would say that you deserved to win the hand, because going into the river card you had a 95%+ chance to win the pot. That doesn’t mean you’re going to actually win the hand every time, and all gamblers understand that. Moreover, the guy who beat you with one out is probably going to apologize for winning that way. Why’s he doing that? Because he knows he didn’t deserve to win that hand. He made a bad call or a bad raise and he put himself into a position where he was going to lose that hand most of the time. I see those apologies all the time on the “World Series of Poker.”
The same goes for the Steeler bettors. Yes, the TD should have counted, and the Steeler bettors technically deserved to win that bet. The final score would have been 18-10 (or 17-10 if they didn’t kick the extra point). But in just about every football wager there is a right side and a wrong side. In this case, the right side of the bet was the Chargers +5. San Diego battled Pittsburgh for the entire game and was leading 10-8 deep into the fourth quarter. Anyone who had money on Pittsburgh was sweating bullets on the Steelers’ final drive, hoping for an unlikely TD (push) instead of a much-more-likely field goal (loss). And just about every bettor would have regretted putting money on the Steelers, which is more telling than anything. This is akin to the poker player who has only one or two outs heading into the river card. They are hoping for a miracle and are regretting putting themselves in that position in the first place.
If the TD had counted and the PIT side had won the bet, I would wager that if you were to ask a vast majority of those winners if they had deserved to win that wager, and assuming they were truthful, they probably would have said no – that they got “lucky.” Did they technically deserve the win? Of course. Are they going to take it? Of course. But that doesn’t mean they were on the right side of that bet.
Of course, this assumes that there wasn’t a series of bad calls that put the Steelers in that position in the first place. I didn’t watch the entire second half, so I can’t speak to that.
Hi, I just contacted the NFL office at:
(212) 450-2027
They said that the NFL is reviewing the call right now, but the girl I spoke to wouldn’t confirm or deny that a change would be made (i.e., giving Pittsburgh the additional 6 points).
Feel free to call and complain, and also the email address for Roger Goodell (NFL commissioner ) is:
Roger.Goodell2@nfl.net
Screw the officials., its < 2 minutes., which means that the idiots in the booth were in on it too!!
Flood the # above with complaints….let’s get this call reversed !!!
I’ve been a fan my whole life and this game was fixed for sure. I’ve seen thousands of games and when this one started, I wondered why the ref’s voice was cracking like he was scared or something. It continued like that for the whole game! 9 times out of ten the most simple explanation is correct… pass interference? how many holding calls at mid -field to stall drives? tackle off of the line of scrimmage? (I’ve never even seen that call before), bringing back 2 touchdowns in the final 30 seconds? that ref, whoever he was, needs to grow a pair if he wants to do something like this again. I knew something was up with this game by his cracking voice, the calls just reenforced my suspicions.
not to mention, I’ll never see the NFL the same again.
John, would you be claiming the same thing if this play had happened with 30 seconds to go in the game instead of with no time on the clock? Or with 1:00, or 3:00? Or if, instead of the Steelers getting a late TD off a fumbled kick return, the Chargers would’ve thrown an interception that was returned for a TD with no time on the clock?
I agree with Roberto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jamey -
30 seconds: yes
1:00: yes
3:00: no
interception: yes
What if, instead of just padding their lead, the play would have (or should have, in this case) won the game for the Steelers while also covering the spread?
NBC Sports has the numbers on the betting fallout:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27768483/
Specifically:
This was a travesty. Thankfully I lost no money on the game, but gamblers I feel your pain. This whole game was bullshit.
There was way more than one questionable call on this game. That officiating crew was cheating and there is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Did anyone out there actually see pass interferrance on Ike Taylor? I especially like the invented call of the illegal formation on the Tackle of Pittsburgh when they made a play that got them close to the goal line. Even Phil Simms was wondering about that call. These refs need to be severly punished, I hope they get a good ass raping in prison for the money they cheated out of the people who bet on this game.
Mr. Goodell I hope you do something about this, or the NFL will be as big a joke as the wrestling we watch on TV.
In that situation, the Chargers wouldn’t be running that desperation lateral play.
I’m not sure where you’re going with this, but you’re not going to convince me that your definition of which side of the bet “deserved” to win is better than mine. I agree that the bettors that bet on Pittsburgh technically deserved to win the bet, because it looked like that final play should have stood. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Chargers covered for 59:55, and whoever was on that side of the bet made the right call about the game in their pre-game research. It’s similar to the guy that wins a hand of Texas Hold ‘Em on the river with only one out. He knows he didn’t deserve that win, but that’s not going to stop him from taking it.
I understand why Steeler bettors are angry. They lost that bet because of a blown call by the officials. But that doesn’t change the fact that they were on the wrong side of the wager in the first place.
And like I said, if there were a bunch of blown calls that favored the Chargers earlier in the game, then maybe there is something more nefarious going on. It’s even possible that under that scenario that the Steelers were the “right” side of the wager to be on. But I didn’t see those calls, so I can’t speak to that.
STOP IT all u gamblers, theres bad calls everyday every game.How many times have you been watching football and they call pass interference and the replay shows the guy wasnt even close and you were on the right side of that bet. Sure you werent calling the nfl office on those. If your a gambler you have been on both sides of bad calls live with it part of gambling.
Okay, then what if the Steelers had been behind, recovered an onside kick and returned it for a TD with no time on the clock to win the game and cover the spread?
My point is that the game is 60 minutes long — not 59, not 59:55, but a full 60 minutes, and every play that happens within those 60 minutes contributes toward the outcome. There are obvious examples of a team that deserves to win having the game taken from them (the notorious Den/SD game earlier this season being the most recent), but in most cases, the team that deserves to win, wins. And, it follows, bettors that deserve to win, win. Polamalu made a great play on the ball and took it in for (what should have been) a TD. Was it a fluke? Sure. But that’s part of the game, and it’s part of gambling. I don’t think a bookie would give a rip if you came to him complaining about how you “deserved to win the game” if not for a late fluke play.
Just to clarify, I don’t bet on football (not since college, anyway) and the greater question here is whether or not the game was fixed. I also know I won’t change your opinion, nor am I trying to. I’ve just never understood the “we should have won” argument, or when people say “we should be 9-1 but we’re instead 2-8″. Everything that happens on the field counts (barring referee shenanigans), and it counts for the gamblers as much as it counts for the teams, coaches and players. The people who bet the Chargers were on the right side at 59:55, but if the refs hadn’t blown the call, they would’ve been on the wrong side when time ran out. And those that bet on the Steelers would have (should have) deserved to win.
I swear to god I am not betting on another NFL game until they investigate and address this issue. Total bs if you ask me. Im moving all my betting over to the NHL. At least when they reveiw goals they get the calls right and dont change the score once the players are in the dressing rooms. I cant beleive im saying this but F the nfl.
If it was just the last play, I’d be inclined to say, typical screw up. But here are the facts, and the important thing is they ALL happened THIS GAME. Incidentally, I don’t bet, and the main thing I felt about this game was joy the Steelers won.
1. $100 million bet on game. $66 million on Steelers to cover the spread. (New York times)
2. Wrong call at end lets Chargers beat the spread. It’s so wrong the NFL admits it. In fact, it wasn’t close. Both laterals were clearly backward.
3. 23-1 penalty yardage disparity in the game (115 Steelers – 5 Chargers) Must be the record, or close to it.
4. Both of the last two Steelers play has officials calling back a Steelers touchdown. Once clearly wrongly (see above), once dubious at best.
5. Chargers get a touchdown via a pass interference penalty that looks wrong.
I don’t have to have an opinion. Just pointing out facts. Draw your own conclusions.
I agree, John Paulson is an idiot. It’s not about right or wrong, or who “deserved” to win the bet. It’s about the actual facts on the ground, and the actual financial interests affected. The evidence shows that the officials made an inexplicable reversal of the call on the field (touchdown) in spite of the NFL rulebook.
And, as we all know, that illegal decision changed at least $67 million dollars from one group to another. After the NBA officials’ scandal into fixing games, you don’t get the point.
You might think betting is wrong, but your pious self image is irrelevant to the legal business of gambling regulated by law.
“If the TD had counted and the PIT side had won the bet, I would wager that if you were to ask a vast majority of those winners if they had deserved to win that wager, and assuming they were truthful, they probably would have said no – that they got “lucky.” ‘
But what about the non bettors like me? I couldn’t care less about who wins or loses a bet. I’m concerned the league I enjoy watching looks, well…forget my opinion. Here are the facts.
1. “An estimated 100 million dollars was wagered worldwide on the Pittsburgh/San Diego game, according to RJ Bell of Pregame.com. Approximately 66% of that money was on the Steelers; with only 34% on the Chargers.
”If the touchdown was properly upheld, Steelers bettors would have won about 32 million dollars instead of losing big. This admittedly incorrect call resulted in a 64 million dollar swing in favor of the bookies.” said RJ Bell of Pregame.com.
2. 23-1 penalty yardage disparity in the game (115 Steelers – 5 Chargers) Must be the record, or close to it. (Seahawks fans: not 7-2; 23-1)
4. Both of the last two times Steelers touch the ball has officials calling back a Steelers touchdown. Once clearly wrongly (see above), once dubious at best.
5. Chargers get a touchdown via a pass interference penalty that looks wrong.
I don’t have to have an opinion. Just pointing out facts. Draw your own conclusions.
Doug that is great
I called the phone # and you get roger’s personal secritary. I also sent him an e-mail.
To be clear, I don’t think John is an idiot. It’s called a difference of opinion, people.
“Okay, then what if the Steelers had been behind, recovered an onside kick and returned it for a TD with no time on the clock to win the game and cover the spread?”
The right side of the bet would still have been San Diego. That bet should have won, but didn’t because of a fluke play. (Like I said before, this assumes that the refs didn’t change the game earlier with a series of bad calls.)
So, Jamey, your position is that in any athletic contest, barring a bad call by the officials that changes the outcome of the game, that the team that wins the game is always the one that deserves to win (or should have won) the game. Is that correct?
This is fine if this is the way you look at sports, but my experience has taught me a very different lesson. There have been times when my team lost a game that we thought we should have won (i.e. we dominated for most of the game but a freak half court shot at the end beat us) and there have been times when my team won a game that we definitely should have lost. This is not to say that the winner doesn’t deserve any credit, of course they do, but the game was won under freak (or fluke) circumstances.
Yeah guys – stop with the idiot talk. John is just expressing his opinion. Just because he has a different one than you, it doesn’t mean that he’s an idiot.
That said – I disagree with John completely and man that guy is a flat out moron : )
I would just like to remind everyone that whether the laterals were forward (”illegal”) or backward (”legal”) is completely irrelevant. Either way a PIT TD should result. If one or more of the passes were ruled illegal, even upon review rather than on the field, then these are penalties against SD that PIT has the right to decline. Under no situation, unless the ball on the illegal lateral hit the ground (which clearly didn’t occur) should the play be killed at the spot of transgression. It should be played to its conclusion then presented to PIT whether they want to let the result stand or accept the penalty on SD.
I don’t believe a conspiracy is at play. This was simply a case of the refs forgetting the rules (not to kill the play.) The confusing part is why they aren’t aimply admitting to that, and instead are letting this clowd of suspicion overtake everything.
How can you say the right side of the bet is or would have been San Diego? They lost the game and should have lost against the spread!! The right side of any bet is the WINNING bet.
I’m sure most of us on this blog have played enough sports in our lives to experience what you described — losing a game you thought you should have won, and vice versa. But in the end, to me, the team that “deserves” to win is the team that actually wins. If you deserved to win, you could overcome a fluke play because fluke plays are just as much a part of the game as planning and execution are. And it’s been my experience that teams whining about how they should have won are poor sports.
It all boils down to one word that I’m sure we all know well: “Scoreboard!”
John:
When you bet on a team to win(/cover), you are either hoping to win: because the team you bet on will thoroughly dominate, or be thoroughly dominated but still get lucky and come out on top on the scoreboard. BOTH go into account as possibilities when an intelligent gambler makes a decision.
Its the same in poker to borrow from the earlier analogies. An intelligent player will call a bet preflop, thinking there is an x% chance her will have the nuts, an x% chance thinking he will suck out on the river, and an x% chance something else will happen. They are all equally important and viable… you don’t care how you win as long as you win.
If you deserved to win, you could overcome a fluke play because fluke plays are just as much a part of the game as planning and execution are.
This appears to be the disconnect. In my experience, fluke plays are not “just as much a part of the game” as planning and execution. They are a part of the game, for sure, but planning and execution are far more important. All else being equal, the team that is better prepared and executes better will win 99% of games.
As they should.
Simmy – How can you say that three different ways to win with three different percentages are equally viable? The fact that they have different percentages give them different degrees of viability.
Planning and execution are absolutely more important. I wasn’t speaking to any degree of importance, though, just the fact that fluke plays can be just as significant to the outcome of a game as anything else. And if you lose a game (or fail to cover a spread) because of a fluke play, you still lost. Carping about how you should have won means squat if the scoreboard says otherwise.
It sounds like your problem with my position is about the “whining” and “carping” over a game someone feels they “should” have won. I am not a proponent (nor did I say I was) of whining about a loss. But it doesn’t change the fact that when you leave the gym or you’re sitting in the locker room that you feel like you should have won the game. If you have that feeling, it doesn’t automatically make you a whiner.
Just like it doesn’t change the fact that the team who was outplayed but won on a fluke play probably doesn’t feel like they deserved the win, either.
Feeling like you should have won a game that you ultimately lost is different to me than feeling like you deserved to win a game you ultimately lost. You can feel like you should have won a game that you lost because you made a boneheaded turnover down the stretch or were on the wrong end of a fluke play. But just because you think you should have won doesn’t mean you deserved to win.
So, to answer your previous question, yes, I believe that the team (or gambler) that deserves to win is the team (or gambler) that won. That’s the team that overcame whatever variables occurred during the game to come out on top. That seems to be the main point of contention: thinking you should have won vs. feeling like you deserved to win. Maybe that’s splitting hairs, but unless a game was taken away from you by the officials, how can someone claim they deserved to win a game they lost?
I don’t see much of a distinction between feeling like you “should have” won and feeling like you “deserved” to win, so can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that?
A QB will probably think he should have won a game if he coughs up a late lead with an ugly interception. It was a missed opportunity, but he didn’t deserve to win the game because he made a costly mistake. “Deserve” just seems like such a loaded word to me, indicating a sense of entitlement, and in sports I don’t think you’re entitled to anything. In the end, the scoreboard is all that matters.
Either way, you’re right — it’s time to agree to disagree.
JP: this was NOT a fluke play–recovering a fumble on a risky, midfield lateral (let alone 2) is not a fluke but rather, an “expected outcome”–yup, that’s the reason why you don’t see mid-field, hook-n-latter plays regularly: the fumble risk is just TOO high, therefore recovering the expected fumble can not be a fluke.
Maybe, the fact that the fumble took an fortuitous bounce into Troy’s hands while he was on the run toward the endzone was a fluke….
John Paulsen is an idiot. His Texas Hold ’em analogy stinks. Such an analogy would be correct only if you middle a straight flush on the river and then the dealer said
The long and the short of all this is that the people that picked Stellers got Fu#@ed no matter how you look at it we won the bet and had it taking away for no reason after the game was over. I will always say final 17or18-10 but my betting account does not agree!
Kinda just skimmed through all these posts and seems like everyone is talking about who deserved what. Above all, all those who enjoy watching the NFL deserve a full explanation of what happened last night, and more importantly, what they are going to do after another situation where the referees influenced the result of a game. There ha got to be a line, which we should have passed 20 blown calls ago, where the entire officiating department needs to be actually dealt with. Maybe in the off season a complete restructure of the rules. Now it may not be have to be that drastic, but something actual serious has to happen. This cannot be just swept under the carpet till something catches our attention next week.
I’m most upset about the whole review process anyway. How many of us thought that finally this would help clear up bad calls and such, and now it seems like it has created more confusion. I believe there are just too many limits on the use of the replay. Now I understand there must be some limits, but if they are going to implement a system to try and fix problems, do whatever you can do to actually fix the f-in problem. I can see myself continue into a rant about all this shit that’s wrong with the league so I’m just gonna stop myself here.
Regarding last night: perfect example of how they took a replay situation and instead of taking however long to confirm they somehow got themselves all confused and changed the call. unbelievable! sorry to those who took pitt to cover. clearly should have been at least 17-10. and thats why i usually take the moneyline. pitt was just 1 of a 5 parlay.
best luck to all of us getting any explanation from Roger or anyone else about any progressive results.
That’s three people that have called me an idiot. It must be true.
This begs the question – how many people are walking around in this world not knowing that they’re idiots? I am very lucky to have people like Tim Button, Mark Miller and Realistic Viewer to tell me that I’m an idiot so I can stop acting like I’m smart and just start embracing my idiocy.
My dad always says that people resort to name-calling when they run out of arguments. I bet he’s an idiot too.
Well, I for one didn’t call you an idiot, but if your premise is that the game ended on a “fluke play” I would say that makes for a flawed argument–if the Chargers would have scored on the play, that would have been a fluke.
A TD for either team would have been a fluke. 99 times out of a 100, that play ends in something other than a TD, for either team.
Chargers have to go approximately 80 yds and in order to do so will need at least 2 laterals vs. the Steelers needing to recover one errant toss–remember, this is not a “set play” that SD practices with any regularity–and take it 20 yds.
I would say that the Chargers’ TD scenario is much more of a fluke than the Steelers–just my opinion (from years of coaching football)–I like the chances of my defense scoring vs. the offense on that play.
well if you knew the rules youd know you cant advance an onside kick when u recover it. find it real funny not 1 of you ever won a bet on a bad call
Im sure maybe 2 of you ppl live in vegas like me. So your all gambling ilegally but are mad when when something shady occurs i really liked the guy who posted hes gambling with his 15 year old son
The Steelers are one of the most bet on teams in the NFL each week. They are 4-6 ATS. Three of these losses are in games they lost out-rite. In the other three, one was this game and the others were:
Steelers 23 -6
Ravens 20
Steelers 10
Browns 6
My only recourse to this BS is to never place another bet on the Steelers. I will closely watch the public betting charts available on thespread.com
I guess I will not have to waste any time listening to the idiot commentators on the NFL networks. Their ignoring this and sweeping it under the counter as some kind of misunderstanding is making me sick!!!
hey happy gambler…wtf are you on accusing everyone of gambling ilegally!?!?!?!…how the fuk do you know where people live?..i live in the uk so do you know something about our laws that i dont as gambling perfectly legal here clown!
99% of Paulson’s posts include him mentioning 99%… which apparently means the other 1% he obviously leaves out for good measure doesnt actually count towards anything… until Troy Polomalu breaks up a lateral and runs it in as time expires… Oh but wait… consider this.. since i like you guys so much…
The Steelers had a 100 yard rusher and reciever, a 300 yard passer, NO turnovers the entire game. the defense held The Chargers to 213 yards of offense, and time of possesion and plays from scrimmage were heavily in the Steelers favor.
So maybe before you say the Chargers deserved to cover, after getting help from 13 penalties, 1 touchdown giveth, and 2 taken away… maybe what happened at the end was just “supposed to”…
and they even took that away.
Maybe you are not an idiot, but you sure think like one.
I propose a “John Paulsen” rule….
When betting on any sporting event, the real final score doesnt count. You will take the score at 99% of game completion.. (or in this instance 59:55)… and that will be the winning score. Whatever happens the last five seconds doesnt matter… whether a team “deserves” it or not…
That way, miracle finishes will never happen, and all the professional gamblers with “logical” explainations of a game of CHANCE (theres that 1% again…it doesnt count…I DESERVE to win!!!) will never feel like they have to defend themselves again.
Yay!
Tim’s right. I 100% believe this game was fixed. If you think about it, it’s the only logical explanation of how badly you could blow the call.
Tim is right about the for sureness of the fix. Watch the entire game again. San Diego was surely off-sides on one play that I think everyone has forgotten to mention, Simms even pointed that one out. The game was supposed to go to San Diego, they were given a score and had several drives halted to assist them in their effort. Plus 2 TD reversals. worst thing I’ve ever seen!
The sports reporters are trying to cover it up too. No one wants to come out and say they think it was fixed, but I know at least a few of them know it was.
“those who enjoy watching the NFL deserve a full explanation of what happened last night, and more importantly, what they are going to do after another situation where the referees influenced the result of a game.”
I agree completely. I don’t bet. I couldn’t care less who wins bets. I’m concerned because for the first time ever, I’ve seen a game which I thought was, well…
Everyone’s free to talk about what interests them, of course, but I don’t get where this “right side of the bet” debate is coming from.
If you go to a crooked race track, the right side of the bet is with the crooks, no doubt. What I’m concerned about is how you explain 23-1 penalty yardage, a blown call with a very lame explanation, and $60 million more to Vegas bookies… Put another way, until Sunday I hadn’t thought the NFL was a crooked race track.
Here’s Scott Green’s explanation.
“”We didn’t kill it on the field. After discussion we decided there was some confusion over which pass we were talking about, and it was decided that it was the second pass that was illegal that did hit the ground, and therefore we killed the play there.’
Reporter: “But the second pass was legal?’
Green: “I know. The rule was misinterpreted.’
Reporter: “So it should have been a touchdown?’
Green: “We should have let the play go through in the end, yes. It was misinterpreted that instead of killing the play, we should have let the play go through.’
Does this seem remotely plausible to anyone?
After the play, an official runs onto the field, to say, correctly, that “there was an illegal forward pass. The Steelers decline the penalty. Touchdown.” The lateral was probably legal. But it’s a little iffy, and if it wasn’t, this is the right call.
So now the officials decide to review it.
Green seems to be saying that they mistook the first lateral for the second, and that, since the second bounced, it should have killed the play. I have some courtroom experience, and it seems like just the kind of lie a bad liar tells trying to cover his tracks. At first glance, plausible. At the second, simply a bad lie.
“it was decided that it was the second pass that was illegal that did hit the ground, and therefore we killed the play there.”
THEY WEREN’T TELLING STORIES ABOUT THE PLAY OVER A CAMPFIRE!
You’re telling me they looked at the replay of a correctly called play, and somehow decided that a lateral which travelled five yards backwards was an illegal forward pass? THEY’D JUST BEEN LOOKING AT THIS PLAY, OVER AND OVER AGAIN! ALL THREE GOT THIS CONFUSED???!!! NONE OF THEM COULD STRAIGHTEN THIS OUT!!! NONE HAD THE SENSE TO REVERT TO THE ORIGINAL, CORRECT CALL???!!!
Finally, what about only overturning a call based on clear and convincing evidence? They forgot about this rule, as well? The rule everyone has heard about 28 times per football game?
Seriously, could anybody wrongly overturn the call based on this reasoning in good faith?
This is the explanation I heard from one of the head officials….
They initially ruled that LT’s lateral was an illegal forward pass. Pittsburgh declined that penalty and the ref on the field called the TD good.
THEN the refs huddled together and incorrectly ruled that, because the second lateral (the one from Chambers) hit the ground, the play was dead at that spot. I think that’s what Scott Green was referring to after the game — the refs got confused and incorrectly ruled that the TD didn’t count because the ball hit the ground, ending the play. But because Chambers’ lateral was legal, it was a legitimate fumble and the play should have stood.
I’m not saying I buy the explanation, but I do think it’s possible that the refs got together and, in the heat of the moment, simply blew the call. Clearly, there’s some other sketchy evidence here (phantom interference call, penalty discrepancy, etc.), but as someone who generally dismisses conspiracy theories, there’s a part of me that wants to believe their explanation and assume the refs aren’t crooked, just incompetent.
Tim Button – You seem to have a real hard on for me. Did I steal your girlfriend back in high school?
Clearly the concept of being on the right side of a bet and still losing is a difficult one to grasp. Maybe it requires a lot of experience betting on games, I don’t know.
As for all the other things you listed that supposedly favored the Chargers – I already said (at least twice) I didn’t see the entire game so I can’t speak to all of those. After watching the Packers the last few years, I do know that physical teams tend to get flagged more often.
You said earlier that gambling is a game of chance. Do you really believe that?
Lottery is a game of chance. Roulette is a game of chance. But picking winners, playing poker, fantasy football – these are games of skill. There is an element of chance involved, certainly, but if you play the game according to the percentages, you can make money. You can also do everything correctly when capping a game/playing a hand, and still lose.
I must say, I thought this call was perfect. I was down to my last buck in Vegas, flying out Monday. I had a $100, 3 game parlay with Chargers as final piece of it. It paid $600 or $700 back to me. Winning that enabled me to be $500 on Cowboys that night, and also won some in NBA. Then I played craps with some leftover money and got on a run. All in all, left Vegas with over $3000, but had that play been ruled TD, would have left penniless. Thank you NFL!!!
i just watched the lateral 10 times in slow motion, great call byt he refs, this was obviously a forward lateral!!!
I tend to agree that LT’s looked like a forward lateral, but they blew the call by disallowing the TD.
John Paulsen, please stop posting your falacious argument, no one cares what the right side of the bet means, only you. This isn’t about gamblers, or your pointless point you insist on making, it’s about the NFL, and what actually happened and why.
The Seattle Seahawks also got robbed a few years back by absolutely horrid officiating. Pro sports is all mobbed up.