Barstool Debate: Does Kobe Bryant compare to Michael Jordan?
Skill-wise, Kobe Bryant is (probably) the best player in the NBA, and since he’s won a few championships and plays shooting guard, the comparisons to His Airness are inevitable.
But has Kobe done enough in his career to deserve to be compared to MJ? John Paulsen and Anthony Stalter discuss this very topic in this week’s Barstool Debate.
John: I don’t know that there is anyone that truly compares to Jordan, even Kobe. They do have several similarities. Both are phenomenal all-around athletes. They’re both fierce competitors. But there’s something that sets Jordan apart. MJ won six rings and was the main guy for all of those championships. Kobe was Shaq’s sidekick during the Lakers’ three-peat, and while he was (and is) a great player, he was not the main reason that L.A. won those titles. He certainly made a big contribution, much in the same way Scottie Pippen contributed to the Bulls’ championships, but without Shaq, those Laker teams weren’t going anywhere. However, if Kobe and his Lakers can win a title this year, it will help his case. I think he needs to win two or three more rings as the lead guy in order for us to have a real debate about who is the better player.
Anthony: I don’t know if it’s fair to compare the two with Kobe still being an active player. Quite frankly, right now there is no comparison. MJ has four more league MVP awards, three more NBA Finals MVP awards, four more All-Star appearances and over 10,000 more points. It’s probably safe to assume Kobe will at least match MJ’s All-Star Game appearances, but it’s so hard to compare everything else considering Kobe’s full body of work isn’t completed yet. And while it’s true Kobe did have Shaq, it wasn’t like Jordan was playing with Teddy Ruxpin and the Hamburglar during the Bulls’ championship runs. Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong formed a formidable team, plus Jordan eventually played with one of the best rebounders in NBA history when Dennis Rodman played in Chicago from 1995-1998. This might be another discussion in itself, but were MJ’s championship Bulls teams better than Kobe’s championship Laker squads?
John: You’re not getting off that easy, Stalter. You want to wait until Kobe is done playing before comparing the two players? What fun is that? It’s not like this is a 24 year-old we’re talking about. Kobe turns 30 this August and has played in the league for 12 years. Certainly, we must have some idea how he’ll compare with MJ when he finally hangs ‘em up. You’re right about the All-Star appearances – Kobe will probably get at least three or four more. If he plays for five more seasons, he’s likely to approach MJ’s point total as well. But he’s going to have a tough time catching Jordan in MVP awards and championships, and that might have more to do with Kobe’s personality than his sheer talent. Jordan had a reputation for being a hard ass, but his teammates wanted to go to war with him, and I don’t think there are too many Laker fans that would seriously argue that Kobe is a good teammate. For all the talk about L.A.’s magical season, I’ve seen the same ol’ Kobe in the 2008 Finals – barking at teammates, poisonous body language and condescending facial expressions. This is what sets Jordan apart – he didn’t show up his teammates (nearly as much).
Anthony: Damn it JP, you caught me. I was trying to sneak out of this one with my dignity since you’ve schooled me on previous NBA debates! I think if we’re comparing sheer numbers and achievements, we do have to wait until Kobe is done playing. But if we’re taking less of an analytical approach to the debate, then yes, Kobe has a long way to go to get on Jordan’s level. There’s a fine line between the two player’s styles of play. In some respects, one could view Jordan as being a selfish player with the amount of shots he took. But Jordan was rarely, if ever, accused of being a me-first guy. The same cannot be said for Kobe. So what does Kobe have to do then to get on Jordan’s level then? Win, but win the way Jordan did by becoming a team player? What defines a team player? As a non-Kobe supporter, what would he have to do to earn your respect as a fan and therefore, even mention him in the same breath as Jordan?
John: One thing that really jumps out at me when comparing these two players is their FG%. Jordan shot a career 49.7% from the field while Kobe shoots 45.3%. If not for MJ’s last few seasons, he would have finished over 50%, which is astounding for a guard. I don’t think anyone can criticize Jordan for being selfish when he is hitting half of his shots. Moreover, Kobe’s numbers will likely go down a bit as he gets older. He has always been a little suspect in his shot selection, and I don’t think anyone would say that about Jordan. But back to Kobe’s legacy… his numbers will ultimately compare, but Kobe has to be “The Man” on two or three more championship teams before a real comparison can be made. Winning one will be a big load off his shoulders, but it won’t be enough to erase four years of selfishness, perceived or not. For Kobe to be considered “The Greatest,” he has to stop with all the faces/barking at his teammates, quit complaining so much to the refs, and win a few more championships. The Lakers are young and talented, and are poised for a great run, but it’s up to Kobe to lead them to the Promised Land.
Anthony: I wonder which player had/has it tougher in terms of winning championships. As you noted, the Lakers are a solid young team, but the Western Conference is brutally tough and it’s so hard to repeat in the salary cap era. By no means am I saying Jordan and the Bulls had it easier, but was the league as competitive as it was in the mid-90’s as it is now? Who knows, maybe this is the last chance Kobe has to win a championship. After all, it took Kobe and the Lakers five years to get back to the NBA Finals. Nothing is guaranteed.
John: Well, the Lakers just lost Game 4 at home, so it looks like a title in 2008 is a long shot. Kobe still has a lot of work to do if he wants to pass up MJ. With the return of a healthy Andrew Bynum, I think the Lakers will be the favorite to win the 2009 NBA title.
Posted in: Barstool Debates, NBA, NBA Finals
Tags: Kobe Bryant, Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan, Kobe vs. Michael, Michael Jordan
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Come on guys. This isn’t even close. When you take the whole picture, and yes I know Kobe’s is yet to be finished, Jordan blows him away. Points may be close at the end, as well as All-Star games, but other than that I am not so sure anything else will be close. Kobe’s shot selection is more than suspect. He believes that he has to shoulder the load and when he does he can knock it down on some nights. Last night he scored 17 points. Would MJ have scored 17 with a huge lead after one? He would have stepped on the opponents throats.
So if Kobe rattles off three straight titles to close out his career, he still wouldn’t compare? I wouldn’t argue with you that it isn’t close now, but Kobe has some time left to make this a real debate. For me, his on-court persona and his off-court antics will keep him from ever truly approaching MJ, but there are a lot of people comparing the two.
I think you CAN compare the two ….. You just did ! Seriously, it’s going to get down to – If you like Kobe – then you will want a fair shot to compare – if you don’t like the guy – you dismiss him. The numbers will be there by the time he is finished.
I am not a big Kobe guy because of the Colorado deal. But – hey, don’t believe Mikey Jordon was as clean cut as the sports world has made him out to be either …..
At this point, absolutely not. Maybe skillwise, but not in accomplishment or integrity. (However, I think if the internet was prominent in Jordan’s day, it may have tarnished his rep a bit.)
Not to mention, Michael never lost a Finals. Kobe has already lost one with Shaq, and looks like he will lose another soon.
Good discussion men. As a Lakers fan, I’d like nothing more than for Kobe to be mentioned in the same breath as MJ whenever their names come up. However, I’d have to agree from what was said, Kobe is no MJ. Though, most would have to agree that he is the closest to MJ than any that have followed since. I do hope Kobe matures more after this year’s trials. I think he has grown, but evidently not fast enough for his critics.
The next person who debates the merits of Kobe to MJ needs to be sent to basketball prison (that includes Mark Jackson). How can you even have this debate? I should just write a column about this, but I’ll settle for a paragraph:
MJ DOMINATED THE NBA AS A TWO GUARD WITHOUT A GREAT BIG MAN OR POINT GUARD. No one has ever done this before or since. Look how Kobe did in the three seasons without a dominant big man in his career–out of the first round two years in a row. There’s more to be said, but I’ll leave it at that.
one thing you need to factor in is the fact there are way better bigs and way better atheletes on the court these days. Jordan played when every team still had altleast one white starter where today theirs what two maybe three and ones caniadian..kobe will be the greatest to play the game considering who hes playing with and against. thank you thank you very much.
I agree with the last post. You can say what you want about jordan winning without a big man but look at the teams he was playing against. See most of you are byast about the whole MJ kobe thing and most of you probably have only seen jordan highlights as I grew up a season ticket holder and saw his greatness but MJ also had some horrific performances that nobody can remember or wait wants to remember. Kobe is a better athelete then jordan and is playing against better atheletes. Its a way tougher game out there these days alot tougher
Add the fact that Jordan has a better shot selection than Bryant so his fg is really high
Though Kobe had Shaq, who was a dominating force and jordan had no great point guard or center, he still had Scottie Pippen. They were one of the best duos ever. Without Pippen, Jordan might have gotten a few chips, but not all six. With Andrew Bynum back, I think the Lakers are gonna come out of the West few more times, giving Kobe more of a chance to be compared to MJ.
Melvin – Good point. MJ had an almost unstoppable post up game while Kobe is reluctant to post up. Hence, the much lower FG%.
KObe really blew it with his performance in the Finals this year. I think the debate is over for now unless Kobe can get back there and win another one.
He averaged 26/5/5. He shot just 41%, but I don’t think he was the reason the Lakers lost the series.
I agree that the debate is tabled until he can win a title or two without Shaq.
I think that MJ is the greatest player of all time. Because MJ has played against magic, drexler, barkley, payton, malone, stockton, kemp in finals. he also has played against robinson, hakeem, shaq, bird, isiah and detroit bad boys. MJ win against most of them in their prime. other than that defenses in late 80s and 90s were stronger than as in 2000s. with new nba rules, kobe or other basketball players -especially all-star level player – can easily go the charity line. defensive players can not play without any limitations. they can easily get 3th or 4th foul in the 2nd quarter. because of weak defensive plays, ppg for a player can be seemed high. but the same player had no possibility to get these high stats against 90s teams. can you imagine that kobe scores 81 against any team in 90 era. I think he can’t. finally, i think that mj is better than kobe and also than wade, iverson, c.anthony, carter, hill in their prime.
There’s no debate, Jordan on his prime will own Kobe Bryant. The fact that Jordan was able to average that many points when defensive handchecking was still allowed! If Jordan in his prime played in this era he would average no less than 33-35ppg with all the foul shots he would take!
FG%
MJ = .497
KB = .455
PTS
MJ = 30.1
KB = 25.1
Playoff PTS
MJ = 33.4
KB = 25.0
Scoring Champ
MJ = 10x
KB = 2x
Rings
MJ = 6
KB = 4
Finals MVP
MJ = 6
KB = 1
Season MVP
MJ = 5
KB = 1
Finals Lost
MJ = 0
KB = 2
Defensive Player of the Year
MJ = Yes
KB = No
All-Defensive (1st)
MJ = 9x
KB = 7x
i agree with you john btw great name my little brother shares the name but getting to the point even if kobe surpasses jordan statistically and that’s a huge huge if it will have taken more years and of course there’s the shaq thing 3 mvp’s in 3 finals in which kobe played for la against 6 mvp’s in 6 titles in 8 years including nearly 2 years of retirement for mj all you la loving fans know what i’m talking about all the kobe jockers consider this kobe is almost a copy of mj except in a weaker less athletic, tough body ie less strength less leaping ability definately less speed, much much smaller hands and beleive it or not a much less competitive embodiment of those skills. also kobe was nowhere near as dominant as mj. before you brand me a kobe hater consider the fact that i think kobe is a top 5 player of all time before you judge me i’m 39 years old so i actually saw both these guys entire careers up to this point not at any time after mj’s first 5 years in the nba were rookie players ever mentioned like derrick rose and tyreke evans are today like every other game this season and there definately no player statistically so superior that mj absolutely had to win a title to continue being talked about as the best player like what you see with kobe and lebron well there was the whole clyde drexler thing but after mj destroyed him in the finals there was never anything close to a debate there’s also the issue of longevity kobe at 30 plays like mj at 38
sorry 23459 he would actually average up in the 40′s witness the 08 finals mj would have absolutely destroyed bostons defense but that same defense was enough to send kb24 to the bench in tears and hold him below his regular season scoring average for the entire series
i agree with you jeff of the 6 finals appearances the bulls had maybe twice were they the favorites yet they won them all and they were only the favorites then due to the accumulation of titles la on the other hand had been favored to win the title years before they could even get out of the first round of the playoffs of the 6 finals appearances la actually made they were prohibitive landslide favorites yet lost 2 finals in terrible blowout fashion with kobe never even matching his season average then there’s lebron who has surpassed kobe statistically the last few years now that he has shaq la better pray they face the magic again cause cleveland swept the lakers this season without lebron having to break a sweat while kobe pressed and jacked up shot after shot cause kobe has a desire to be the best that his body and temperament cant live up to
Jordan is better but people treat him like a God that cannot be approached. When you really break down the stats it is actually very close between them. Notice how many more shots per game Jordan and those Bulls teams took. Jordan still had a better percentage from two point range and Kobe is a sliver of a point better at three’s. Now stats aren’t everything in this story but it’s really hard to compare two era’s. Here’s an article on the stats any way: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2545955/keha_has_the_numbe
r_one_song_in_the.html?cat=2
We have an interesting debate about this topic going on at the following link:
http://www.surveymagnet.com/2010/07/what-does-kobe-bryant-have-to-d
o-eclipse-jordan-as-the-greatest/
Come join the discussion.